Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell
There’s been a lot of news lately about the efforts of several groups to
abolish the ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ policy of the military.
In my opinion, gays don’t belong in the military and I don’t care what
program they use to camouflage it.
Imagine being a heterosexual male soldier assigned to the women’s barracks.
Imagine that you observe the women dressing and undressing while you
lounge in your bunk. Imagine taking a shower with a half-dozen or more
naked females in the communal shower. Imagine sitting on the toilet and
a female soldier comes to the toilet next to you, drops her drawers and
starts up a conversation with you; and when you stand, she checks out
your ‘equipment’.
Sure, for most of this it sounds like a “hey, I’ve died and gone to heaven”
fantasy”, and part of it initiates a level of discomfort. But for a gay male,
whose sexual object is other men, this is his world.
Some of the men I served with in the Navy were probably gay. But I can
say with some certainty that it was well hidden; the reality being that if
it had become known, the gay guy would have no doubt been thrashed
and tossed out of the service. I can say with complete certainty that I was
never approached by a fellow sailor wanting to have sex.
I don’t hate gays. In my opinion, it’s not their fault that they have these
leanings, as I assume they were born that way, and have no choice. I
do oppose gay adoption, though, because I don’t see how their lifestyle
can be healthy for impressionable children. But I digress.
My objection to gays in the military can be summed up this way; there
is no privacy in military life. If I knew that a fellow soldier was gay, I would
avoid him because I wouldn’t want others in my unit to think I was gay. When
I showered, or used the toilet, I would take care to do it when the gay person
was not around. I would object to being bunked next to a gay guy. And if the
gay guy ‘came on’ to me, I’d punch him out.
We depend heavily upon our military forces to protect our country, our
constitution, and our freedoms. Permitting openly gay persons to serve
in our military ranks will erode the cohesiveness of the units and result
in a disruption we can ill afford.
If you want edit me? just go to your profile than add description text as many you like. ^_*
Hambone…Excellent….remember one of the great movies of our time Stripes ?…Remember this scene ?
Psycho: The name’s Francis Soyer, but everybody calls me Psycho. Any of you guys call me Francis, and I’ll kill you.
1Leon: Ooooooh.
Psycho: You just made the list, buddy. And I don’t like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I’ll kill you. Also, I don’t like nobody touching me. Now, any of you homos touch me, and I’ll kill you.
Sergeant Hulka: Lighten up, Francis.
Straight people have this idea that queer people are attracted to ALL people of the same sex. That’s not true. My partner is committed to me, and she would never make inappropriate moves on any of her colleagues.
For people to get over their aversion to queers in the military, you have to stop thinking of it in straight male terms. Maybe a straight man WOULD act like you said if he were in a shower full of women. I hope not. But queer people are generally more chill about nakedness. I know this will be hard for you to believe, but we don’t want to see your “equipment”. It’s not ABOUT you. A lot of the opponents to repeal are only worried about THEMSELVES — I bet you’ve never given a thought to the lies we have to tell every day under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Try going to work, with people that you are incredibly close to, and not talking about your wife or girlfriend. Try hiding the fact that you just got married, when all you want to do is tell the world.
It’s not easy.
2I confess that I don’t have a lot of experience with gay people.
I can only draw from my own experiences. While I was in the Navy, I was stationed in the San Francisco area. Do you know that I couldn’t walk from the bus terminal to downtown, without being propositioned by gays? Most often, it was by gays cruising in their expensive cars. Sometimes gays would see me walk by a bar and they’d come out of the bar and try to get me to come in and have a drink. Everywhere I went, if I was alone, I would be badgered, and a couple of times they were so persistent that I had to get physical to get them to leave me alone. I felt like the last ham in the butcher shop just before Easter. When I got out of the Navy, my first job was
with a large bank in downtown San Francisco. The 2nd day on the job, a vice-president took me out for lunch so that he could ‘get to know me better’, and he hit on me. He told me that several of the officers in the bank were ‘interested’ in
meeting me. I walked out of the restaurant and never went back to the job.
I was reading an article about Aids once, and learned that it was introduced into America by an airline pilot who went to a bathhouse where gays would gather, and they would have sex sometimes with dozens of partners.
And then there’s the Gay Parades, where sometimes hundreds of gays march in public wearing obscene costumes and spouting obscene chants.
This, then, is my exposure to gays. It had nothing to do about love, and everything to do with sex. I’m sure there are people such as yourself, and I bid you no ill will, and can perhaps even feel some sympathy with your plight. However, when the military open the flood gates and allow openly gay men to join, you are going to have a mix….some will be latent, such as yourself, but there will be those who come in with the limp-wristed, falsetto voice sashay, staring as butts and crotches, and it will cause problems.
3Confirmed….I read your comments and try to be I guess sympathetic, BUT you chose your lifestyle, it is not mainstream, and quite frankly I have never and never will give any thought of what you will not tell others as you mention about your life choice, YOU decide whether to tell lies…YOU made the decision
4First let me thank Hambone for his service to our country and now to outline a number of points with which I would disagree, but respectfully (I am going to the Rally to Restore Sanity, and we have to be reasonable).
1) The analogy that a gay guy in the shower with straight men is the same as a straight guy in the shower with a bunch of women is overstated (short digression: the coed shower scene in Starship Troopers is worth the rental for that scene alone, but would have been better if they’d worked in Denise Richards’ character).
Probably more like me in the shower with a bunch of really fat women. Yes, theoretically the opposite sex, but still not doing it for me. (Recognizing that for some of you it may be your thing —zing).
Although I never served in the military I’ll use my 4 years experience with 45 guys in a fraternity sharing an open 6 place shower as a surrogate. We had at any given time 3 to 4 guys who were obviously gay in the frat (the GQ subscription, Calvin Klein obsession, and lack of dates were dead give aways), but I never was uncomfortable in the shower with them and they never hit on me. What happens at a Gay Pride parade is different than in a living together situation. They might have been secretly attracted to me, I flatter myself here, but they knew I wasn’t gay so that was that. I was at a party with plenty of gay men through work, and a guy showed interest and the gay-host said, “she’s straight darling” and that was that, I was left alone (FUN PARTY though).
2) Long story short, I was engaged to a woman who discovered prior to our wedding day that she was gay. Years later I was sailing my boat across Lake Michigan with an assorted crew and sharing the midnight watch with a lesbian friend of ours (my wife and I) and I told her about my “ex” and how ironic/surprising it was since we had a very full and satisfying sex life. She said that she wasn’t surprised at all and that “too much is made about the sexual aspect of being gay, and not enough about the emotional aspect. The sex is what sells, but it is really an emotional connection more than a sexual one.”
3) There have always been gays in the military, just not openly. My dad said after the combat was over in WW2 he was at a bar and an officer put his hand on his thigh and my dad said, “get your @$#&()&^ hand of my leg you s.o.b.” I asked him what happened next and he said, “nothing, the guy went his way and that was the end of it.” I bet a few women said the same thing to my dad!!!
4) Discrimination of any kind is almost always self-defeating. Why narrow the available talent pool to just straight people? The most talented translator, or best fighter pilot might actually be the gay one. The local Adventist Hospital in town restricts its directors and above to 7th Day Adventists only. Their right, but stupid policy none-the-less. Why restrict the talent pool? The nearby Catholic hospital has a Jewish CEO and out performs the Adventist hospital. Let’s have the best, most talented people regardless of sexual orientation. It seems to work for most other military forces.
52 points at this time. 1) thanks everyone for being courteous. I dont expect everyone to agree, but I do appreciate playing nice, which everyone is doing and 2) Sam you trying to tell me I havent watch Starship Troopers 23 times for the excellent acting?
6There was acting?
7Well, ok, now I’ll have to rent Starship Troopers. I had never heard of it before.
8Hambone, let us know what you think.
9I wasn’t able to find the movie Starship Troopers, but I was able to watch several clips on You Tube, including the shower scene. It didn’t appear that the opposite sexes were aware that everyone was nude. I guess I would have stuck out like a sore thumb
10Thats one of the things that ranks this movie so high on the cheeze scale. These folks lust after each other in scene after scene but when they are in the shower they might as well be in the school cafeteria.
11Hambone: I would hope that you would have stood out larger than a sore thumb……..
TM: it is definitely one of those so bad it is good movies…..
12Sam it was on TV this weekend. The shower scene is funny if anything. Here these guys and gals have leered at each other for the entire movie, and in the shower they talk about what they want to do when the get out of the service.
13