Getting this off my chest
My only personal experience with the Tea Party crowd was when one of them was in front of the local post office a few months back. He had the costume on and was holding up a poster of Obama with a Hitler mustache. I told him he should be ashamed of himself implying that Obama was the equivalent to Hitler, and he replied (exact quote), “Why don’t you move to Europe and take your darkie friends with you?”
I pretty much stopped paying attention to them after that, but the other night one of them was on the Daily Show (http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-april-20-2010-john-o-hara) and the guy seemed pretty reasonable and impressive, as was John Stewart. The bottom line is that there is a legitimate debate to be had in this country about the size and role of government, but that debate is not served with people equating a fairly modest (essentially Bob Dole’s 1993 plan) healthcare bill with “tyranny,” “fascism,” “Stalinism,” etc.
My friend Jeff is pretty cynical about the ability of “government” to run anything well, not without reason. However I happen, based on my own experience, to have a little less faith in the private sector than him to get things right. We have all worked at companies where incompetence was the rule. The TM and I spend about a combined 4 years at Health South cleaning up that mess caused by incompetence, fraud and plain old criminal behavior. I don’t trust private sector health insurance bureaucrats and CEO’s making millions (for paying claims) any more than Jeff trusts Nancy Pelosi. I believe Adam Smith said that the trouble with capitalism is capitalists. It is obvious that an unregulated Wall Street is only too willing to bend us over and jam it in as far as they can. It is also obvious that the “government” all too often does bonehead things that stifle creativity and economic growth. I believe in the free market, but not an unregulated market where cheaters, crooks, and scammers can thrive.
So, I’m sorry Tea Party folks that Obama won the election, now get over it, nobody stole your country. If you are willing to engage in a reasoned discussion about the size and role of government, I for one will listen. But equating Obama with Hitler, Stalin, tyranny, etc. doesn’t advance the discussion.
If you want edit me? just go to your profile than add description text as many you like. ^_*
Sam, I truly hope you are not trying to get one fruit loop to stand as a representative of the Tea Party, if indeed it was a Tea Party member you saw. Please tell me you are not doing that!
1I’m going to stick my neck out and say something about health care, which is…..I’m glad something is being done about it. Did you know that last year General Motors spent more on health care than it did for steel to make cars? There’s no way we can compete with the rest of the industrialized world when our manufacturers are saddled with such an uneven economical burden. On a more personal note, my granddaughter is afflicted with a mild form of neurofibromatosis. She cannot get health insurance, even though her health care costs while growing to adulthood have been very minimal. I’m glad that my granddaughter- and no doubt hundreds of thousands of others similarly affected – will finally be able to obtain health coverage.
2For the record, Sam, I have never attended a Tea Party rally, but I do indentify with what I see as their cause. As for the racist you describe, nobody has ever complained about outrageous protesters as long as their ire has been directed at Republicans. No excuse for that guy, but you act like this kind of stuff is something new.
I agree that Obama won, and he has every right to install any form of government he can legally ram down our throats. For example, instead of a simple solution that could have solved Hambone’s granddaughter’s health insurance issue, he came up with a solution that is going to tax us all, require me to buy additional coverage that I don’t need or want which will drive my renewal premiums up substantially more than they had to be. Why would I be happy about that?
I never liked the deficits being run up by Bush, but they were at least within a realm that could be reeled back. By creating a budget with trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, Obama has created a world where there is only one possible solution, and that is substantially higher taxes on everybody. I understand the world view. High unemployment is tolerable as long as we have substantial unemployment benefits. Reduce the disparity between rich and poor by bringing both groups down. The rich come down more quickly, so at least it’s fairer. Involve the federal government in as much of our lives as you can becasue the Obama administration has really smart people who know what’s best. It’s just not a place I want to live, and if it keeps up, I’ll be gone. The Caymans are looking pretty good right now.
As for the business v government comparison, here is why I trust business more (not that business is perfect). In business, you succeed by underpromising and overdelivering. In government you succeed by overpromising…doesn’t matter what you actually deliver. When poor business risks are discovered in the private market..long before the governement does it’s inquiry, the market brutually punishes the market value of the company (See Enron). In government, when poor risks are undertaken (see Barney Frank and housing), you hold private hearings, investigate corporations, take them by force (see Fannie Mae), and then call for more regualtions so that the inept have even more power.
It’s not that all people in government are bad. The system is corrupting by nature.
3Good comments Hambone and Jeff. When I combine them with Sam’s post, it becomes tolerable!
4I think these are all excellent posts and all done w/out the need to get hyper-active and call Obama Stalin, Hitler, etc.
I did think that most of the Tea Party crowd was nutty, but then this guy on the Daily Show was reasonable, so my ears perked up. I still won’t listen to the Tea Party crowd over 64 bitch about “government run” healthcare as long as they have Medicare, but I’m listening as long as they don’t get crazy.
Now Jeff, Fox News never says “liberal protesters” they always say “bomb throwing leftists” so I politely disagree about “nobody” complaining about protestors as long as their ire as been GOP-focused. (And they say it more often then I drop the f-bomb on the golf course, which is a lot! Although today I shot 87 so all is right with the world.)
I’m sure in my heart of hearts that Jeff is more right than wrong on the private sector vs. government solutions but the motivation isn’t tyranny, just too much “do goodersim”.
(And Bush more than doubled the national debt, so don’t give him such a free pass. And he didn’t do it to get us out of a potential depression, he did it to buy off seniors and make the Iraq war more palitable which I think was worse.)
5Sam, some good points there, though I listen to Fox all the time and have never heard “bomb throwing leftists” used. Well except for when they are talking about Obama’s good friend William Ayers who was a bomb throwing leftist. As a matter of fact, was qouted as saying he didnt do enough. But I digress, I will say this Bush shouldnt have gone with the prescription thing. Also, if the government will give me my money back I have paid in over the years, with the interest I could have earned, then I will give up my future rights. Otherwise, I plan on taking advantage of what I have paid for.
6Ok, Sam. I think I have to make two points on rebuttal.
1.) My point about protests is that, for decades, this activity has been admirable. When Bush was President, I would submit that worse things were said about his administration than are being said about Obama’s. The Obama protests generally take place on weekends because participants have jobs and contribute to society. When a Tea Party protest gets as violent as a Coulter or Rove speech on an Ivy League campus, let me know. Also, the Tea Party people are Rush Limbaugh ditto heads. Just ask NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, or the BBC. Here is my question..the Tea Party people have above average education. If they can be controlled by a radio talk show host easier than others, does that mean that an increase in education leads to less intelligence?
2.) In terms of the debt, please give up the Bush comparison. Yes Bush doubled the debt. Obama’s annual deficit is 4 times the worst Bush deficit, and there is no end in sight. He is threatening the well being and legacy of a nation. When we have to inflate our way out of this problem and we rename the dollar the Lira, when we have a BBB bond rating, and we become a subsidiary of China, are you really going to feel good about the fact that Bush had a deficit too? Economically, Obama is either a complete dope, or is intent on destroying the country. There really isn’t an alternative reality.
71) Protests: I never called Bush/Cheney fascist, tyranical, etc. even when they did things like wire tap U.S. citizens w/out court orders, so don’t call Obama one for passing healthcare. That was my only point. So let’s just close this point with agreeing that losing an election does not tyranny make. In the meantime I’m going to read this Tea Party dude’s book after I read Michael Lewis’s book on the financial mess.
2) OK, so we got big deficits, I don’t like them any better than you. What are we going to cut? We always get down to this, and someone says “waste in government.” We need huge cuts and nobody has the guts to tell the truth or take a stand on what we really need to do. Either the Dems, or the GOP, or the Tea Party. It isn’t about offering real solutions, it is about getting power.
3) Can you get waterfront in the Caymans so I can dock my boat at your place? I’ll pay rent, and keep my Neil Young and Reggae music volume low so as not to disturb you…
8Ok Sam. I’m not arguing point 1 anymore. As to point 2, how about we go back to the original 2008 budget. That was about a trillion less. Then let’s redo entitlements, and pull out of Iraq. Problem solved. As far as the islands go, I am not sure you want to dock the boat. The Caymans are hurricane prone. St. Kitts also might be a good spot. Like the Caymans, there are no income taxes and no property taxes. You can gain economic citizenship. I just might be in love with the place and I haven’t even seen it.
9Jeff: As usual we wind up in agreement. Unfortunately neither party has the guts to solve the problem.
The hurricane season is just June through Sept, so I’ll just have to sail up to British Columbia during the summer, or maybe up the Sea of Cortez….
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